Conversation 054 – The Sisumara Planetary Systems

This conversation is inspired from my post titled Magnificence of Srimad Bhagavatham with an amazing seeker that I have ever come across in my infinitesimal spiritual journey so far.

The topic of discussion is primarily on Canto 5: Chapter 23 – The Śiśumāra Planetary Systems of Srimad Bhagavatham.

This has opened both of us to reveal our latent understandings of this magnificent scripture.

Here it is:

Seeker 1: Bhagavatham is one of the grand keys to open the Pandora of Puranas. Have you really read/gone through the scripture? Just curious. Because, the chapters on. Sisumara chakra (tortoise back), Kapila and Devahuti discussions, Vidura and Maitreya discussions, etc are filled with many interesting points. In fact, the metamorphosis of Life from Mineral, Plant and human kingdoms is very secretively given in this Purana. The Darwin’s theory of material evolution forms a subset of our grand theory of evolution of soul. Also, can you give me the sources of your knowledge that will give me a hint as to what line of thought influenced your writings? It helps me to tailor my comments in best way possible, if I am aware of that source of course! Anyway, I will be reading other articles of yours.

Seeker 2: Thank you very much for this valuable insight. Bhagavatham is the key to my life since 2011 🙂 it continues to inspire for lifetimes of learning. Sisumara chakra is dolphin. The symmetrical arrangements of 27 stars on both sides, the arrangement of various other planets and luminaries…

Tortoise or kurma avatar comes in the 8th canto during churning of ocean by demigods and demons for nectar…

There are so many topics in Bhagavatham that are so subtle…

for example Hiranyakashipu’s sermon to his mother Diti and Hiranyaksha’s wife Kayadhu on the nature of the soul when they were lamenting for Hiranyaksha’s death at the hands of Lord Varaha,

the story of the king of Ushinara kingdom and Lord Yama in the form of small boy instructing on the illusions about death and material relationships,

the Hamsa Guhya prayers by Prajapathi Daksha for creating progeny through the womb of his wife Pāñcajanī,

the story of King Chitraketu and his small son teaching the philosophy of the soul through the dhristi of sage narada and angira after re-entering the dead body,

the story of King Anga and King Vena,

the most important story told to prachinabaari on puranjana by sage narada on transmigration of soul,

song sung by lord shiva to the prachetas,

the narayana kavacha for killing vritrasura,

the story of jada bharath,

the enigmatic comparisons meted out to son of Daksha – Haryaśvas and Savalāśvas by narada for their renunciation from material life,

the bhumi gita, the uddhava gita, the aila gita (part of Uddhava Gita),

the gopi gita on the prayers of their separation with lord krishna,

the story of various incarnations,

the teachings of the sages at kurukshetra,

the chatur sloki bhagavatham on the absolute truth,

the concept of absolute time,

the dimensions of universe,

the concepts of creation, annihilation and dissolutions,

the three modes of material nature,

the various types of Mayas of the supreme lord,

the prayers by vidura, akrura, chitaketu and the demigods at several times and several situations,

instructions by nine yogendras to king nimi,

the lilas of krishna in 10th canto. etc.

I just mention whatever that comes straight out of my mind. there is much much more direct as well as subtler aspects. I mean Bhagavatham is more than everything to me…and it is the driving force in my life 🙂

Seeker 1: Sisumara is Tortoise and kurma is turtle (both have a difference), just a humble correction. I can see your immersive joy in Bhagavatam. This is the intended purpose of outcome of Bhagavatam by Vyasa. You are blessed. A continuous effort on knowing and being with something is called Dharanaa and this reveals many secrets that cannot be understood by normal read. Since 2011 implies your deep constant connection with it and so the unfoldment of wisdom like a lotus flower.

Seeker 2: Thank you so much…I would do more exhaustive study on Srimad Bhagavatham than anything else for the rest of my life if given a chance 🙂

https://vedabase.io/en/library/sb/5/23/4/  – The Sisumara Planetary Systems – “This great machine, consisting of the stars and planets, resembles the form of a śiśumāra [dolphin] in the water. It is sometimes considered an incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, Vāsudeva. Great yogīs meditate upon Vāsudeva in this form because it is actually visible.”

The form could also be interpreted as a tortoise as you have been mentioning.as mentioned in this link:

https://dictionary.babylon-software.com/sisumara/  – “a group of stars and constellations said to resemble a dolphin, porpoise, or tortoise; held to be a form of Vishnu, and often considered as a representation of the great circle of time. As an imaginary belt, a symbolic representation of the celestial sphere, or a theoretical revolving zone or belt within which move the celestial bodies — which are the bodies of spiritual entities.

More information here: http://www.decodinghinduism.com/search/label/sisumara%20planetary%20system

This is another link – http://www.kamakoti.org/kamakoti/details/bhagvatpurana24.html  – (not related to ISKCON 🙂 ) – Sisumara Planetary System.

– “Some 13,00,000 yojanas ( 10,400,000 miles) above the ‘Great Bear’ shines high the Pole Star and the‘Sisumara System’ or the Great Machine, comprising the Stars and Planets, resembling a Dolphin in water.

Anyways it’s an aquatic with the arrangement of the various celestial bodies at various places and varied interpretations through various sources always results in ambiguity  😦 but what we require is the right conclusion and the form doesn’t matter 🙂

I hope this provides some clarification.

Seeker 1: There is a difference between exoteric and esoteric approach of Scriptures. A symbol is unique and very special association of spiritual and mundane aspects. I respect the links and info you sent. But, the truth of it lies in “Why” of the reasoning. The form is important, for it encompasses the subtle aspects that cannot be grasped on first sight. A dolphin is no symbol for Sisumara because, it’s back is smooth. The Tortoise back has divisions and a symmetry of arrangement of scales. This symmetry is mapped to the upper dome of visible skies (mahaakaasa) and inner dome of psychic skies (chittaakaasa). Also, the reference point from where all the measurements given in Bhagavatam are made, is not our solar system or our galaxy, but a far of star, in which is one of the 7 evolved solar systems (out of 12 – hint: Dvaadasa Aadityas).

But one should ask, why speak of these magnitudes in a scripture whose sole goal was divine romance? One of reasons is the internal mapping of external Universe – called “Yay Pinde Tat Brahmaande – As above so below”. Without this, one is left with mere glamour of vastness of scripture without applicability. And for this reason, turtle is used to suggest the role of Vishnu in preserving the secrets of Visible and invisible cosmos.

Another point is, the exoteric astrologists and astronomers think that the zodiac we are given the names of Ram, Bull, etc., for the shapes they resemble. This is absurd. The same reasoning I saw in above links when they said “resemble dolphin”. No group of stars or constellation resemble any living being. It is the effects produced that resulted in their esoteric symbolical name. For example, if you refer to T.Subbarow’s essay on Zodiac, you will know how the constellation Leo or Simha got its name. Simha does not mean lion, bit in one of its derivative forms implies lion, in Sanskrit. Same with Aswa. So, unless the effects are perceived, it’s futile to understand visible arrangement as particular being. I hope you understand the roots off the approach. Exoteric helps you up to certain extent. But true esoteric intuition from within tales you and helps you cross the ocean of mysticism.

Seeker 2: I can clearly observe your analytical brain to put forth logical arguments at the drop of a hat. Tortoise is used to a great effect in Bhagavad Gita’s second chapter as well as to how to withdraw our senses and keep it under control. Vishnu or Rishikesha is master of senses and sense control and so it is for a big reason to specify tortoise and give so much importance to it.

Bhagavatham says there are millions and millions of universes floating in the causal ocean and virata rupa is associated with each one of them…Lord Brahma is associated with each one of them…the arrangement of 14 planetary systems is associated with each of them…and so on…

Likewise each living organism itself is a universe with a microcosmic arrangement with the equivalent arrangement of planetary systems. the part from the waist is considered asoucha or impure and it is where the lower 7 planetary systems starting from atala to patala are situated…and then similarly we move upwards from bhur loka towards the top of the head which is satyaloka where the supreme consciousness and the control system or brain centre is located.

This body is a temple and the heart is the altar where the deity of supreme God resides. When we abuse the body mind and soul with impure food impure thoughts and impure actions the entire universe (our body) is polluted and similarly the entire physical universe is polluted in that way as we try to dominate the material nature rampantly! Material Universe has its own process to circulate itself in the form of eternal time through yuga cycles but this material body decays and the soul just keep transmigrating from body to body having failed to realise the ultimate purpose of life.

Seeker 1🙂 Let’s reserve this for our later topic – conversation: “The mysteries of multiverse and monoverse in scripture”. The comment section will be bloated with incoherent comments (when we look back in future).

Seeker 2: To conclude for now :), my last comment is in connection with the virata rupa or the universal form of the Supreme Lord floating in the waters causal ocean – the concept of Nara – Naarayaana – in a particular shape equating In the form of an aquatic organism like dolphin or tortoise or porpoise (or whale (dolphin is an evolved sub-species of whale) etc.) existing in the real world for us to perceive the universal form of the Lord and the various entities in the universe situated at various points in the body to initiate us in our spiritual realisation/meditation process to conclude that there is nothing beyond this in the material world. This is just to summarise the entire universal process. It is the first stage of God realisations as we look at things externally. Then we start to look at the Paramaatma or the Super soul residing internally in our own heart as the first intuitive spiritual guru. The final stage is the realization of the Absolute Truth as the Bhagawan or The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Shri Krishna as a reservoir of the 64 transcendental qualities in full opulence. (https://mykrishnaourkrishna.blogspot.com/2016/11/krishnas-transcendental-qualities.html). This transcedental realisation enables us to be in full communion or in union with the Supreme!

Role of women in men’s life according to Vedic Scriptures

It’s very well known that a man’s life is extremely incomplete without a woman/women. He owes his very existence to a woman who bears in her womb for a period of at least nine months, undergoing all sorts of pain and discomfort. A man cannot even simply imagine the pain, strain and agony that a woman undergoes during her time of giving birth to a child. As a mother, a woman plays a critical role in nurturing the infant and is the first teacher. As a child grows up, various women plays different roles accordingly. From a teacher, mentor, peer, friend, colleague to a loving wife.

All of us know this. Nothing new!

But our Vedas and scriptures attach much more significance and more responsibilities to the fairer sex than that what I have mentioned above. I had just mentioned the tip of the ice berg!

The subtle but significant aspects of human life has been stressed throughout our Vedas and Upanishads and expressed more clearly as corollaries in the form of Ithihasas (Ramayana and Mahabharata) and Puranas (Srimad Bhagavatham, Vishnu, Garuda, Padma, Shiva, Skanda etc.).

A typical example is Panchakanya or five ideal women (AhalyaDraupadiKunti / SitaTara  and Mandodari)

Panchakanya

Ahalyā draupadī kunti tārā mandodarī tathā ।
pañcakanyāḥ smarennityaṃ mahāpātakanāśinīḥ ॥

English translation
Ahalya, Draupadi, Kunti, Tara and Mandodari
One should forever remember the panchakanya who are the destroyers of great sins

A variant replaces Sita with Kunti:

ahalyā draupadī sītā tārā mandodarī tathā
pañcakanyāḥ smarennityaṃ mahāpātakanāśinīm 

People practicing Sanatana Dharma, especially married ladies, remember the Panchakanya in this daily Morning Prayer.

Their names are extolled and the prayer is pratah smaraniya, prescribed to be recited in the early hours of the morning.

The panchakanya literally means five kanyas. Kanya may be translated as girl, daughter, maiden or virgin.

By the Vedic injunctions, the wife is accepted as the better half of a man’s body because she is assigned the responsibilities of discharging half of the duties of the husband. For a grihastha (for those in the married order of life), the wife is considered to be the source of liberation because she offers her service to the husband for his ultimate liberation. Marriage is actually a duty performed in mutual cooperation for spiritual advancement.

The critical role of a woman as a wife in a man’s life is mentioned directly in Srimad Bhagavatham:

O hero [Vidura], Diti, being thus afflicted by the contamination of lust, and therefore poor and talkative, was pacified by the son of Marīci in suitable words. O afflicted one, I shall forthwith gratify whatever desire is dear to you, for who else but you is the source of the three perfections of liberation? As one can cross over the ocean with seagoing vessels, one can cross the dangerous situation of the material ocean by living with a wife. O respectful one, a wife is so helpful that she is called the better half of a man’s body because of her sharing in all auspicious activities. A man can move without anxiety entrusting all responsibilities to his wife. As a fort commander very easily conquers invading plunderers, by taking shelter of a wife one can conquer the senses, which are unconquerable in the other social orders. O queen of the home, we are not able to act like you, nor could we repay you for what you have done, even if we worked for our entire life or even after death. To repay you is not possible, even for those who are admirers of personal qualities. Even though it is not possible to repay you, I shall satisfy your sex desire immediately for the sake of begetting children. But you must wait for only a few seconds so that others may not reproach me.

Srimad Bhagavatham: Canto 3 – Chapter 14: Pregnancy of Diti in the evening – Verses 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 & 22.

 This clearly sums up the phenomenon of material existence in this universe. Human beings gets conditioned by Maya, the illusory energy of the Supreme Lord to transact its activities for existence but gets entangled when they forget the very purpose of life by getting fully absorbed only in the four material activities: eating, sleeping, mating and defending.

Here is an example of an henpecked husband lured by the extreme beauty of the female body and involved in extreme glorification of his wife (though this glorification about one’s wife is an undeniable fact) but he is doing at the wrong time of the day when he should have restrained her – the twilight hours are considered to be period to perform Vedic rites/devotional service and nothing else. Moreover, he is a Rishi and was involved in austere activities at the time. But he was powerless to stop the lusty advances of his wife. Thus by giving vain reasons that would obviously be unacceptable to her in her situation that time, he tries to post pone the act but miserably fails!

Diti was thus informed by her husband, but she was pressed by Cupid for sexual satisfaction. She caught hold of the clothing of the great brāhmaṇa sage, just like a shameless public prostitute. Understanding his wife’s purpose, he was obliged to perform the forbidden act, and thus after offering his obeisances unto worshipable fate, he lay with her in a secluded place.

Srimad Bhagavatham: Canto 3 – Chapter 14: Pregnancy of Diti in the evening – Verses 3031.

The learned Kaśyapa said: Because of your mind’s being polluted, because of defilement of the particular time, because of your negligence of my directions, and because of your being apathetic to the demigods, everything was inauspicious. O haughty one, you will have two contemptuous sons born of your condemned womb. Unlucky woman, they will cause constant lamentation to all the three worlds! They will kill poor, faultless living entities, torture women and enrage the great souls.

Srimad Bhagavatham: Canto 3 – Chapter 14: Pregnancy of Diti in the evening – Verses 38 , 39 & 40.

Thus the two most vicious demons Hiranyaksha and Hiranyakashipu were born because of performing the act at an inappropriate time and not according to scriptural injunctions. The effect of this act is also mentioned in Bhagavad Gita:

Bhagavad Gita: Chapter 1 – Observing the Armies on the Battlefield of Kuruksetra – Verse 40

When there is deliberate negligence of the regulative principles of religious life, the women as a class become polluted, and as a result there are unwanted children. When irreligion is prominent in the family, O Krsna, the women of the family become corrupt, and from the degradation of womanhood, O descendant of Vrsni, comes unwanted progeny.

Hence, moderation and restraint in any activity is essential to lead a sane and ideal life.

Bhagavad Gita: Chapter 6 – Sankhya Yoga – Verse 16

 “There is no possibility of one’s becoming a yogi, O Arjuna, if one eats too much, or eats too little, sleeps too much or does not sleep enough.

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Magnificence of Srimad Bhagavatham

I have been mentioning at least one passage from Srimad Bhagavatham in most of my posts.

Now, I would like to mention the magnificence of this transcendental literature, which is verily Lord Shri Krishna Himself in a literary form, just meant for liberating us from this age of darkness:

Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the spotless Purāṇa. It is most dear to the Vaiṣṇavas because it describes the pure and supreme knowledge of the paramahaṁsas. This Bhāgavatam reveals the means for becoming free from all material work, together with the processes of transcendental knowledge, renunciation and devotion. Anyone who seriously tries to understand Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, who properly hears and chants it with devotion, becomes completely liberated.” – SB 12.13.18.

Srimad Bhagavatham was first revealed by The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Shri Krishna to Lord Brahma, the creator of this universe when he was anxious of how to proceed with the creation process.

Srimad Bhagavatham is the essence of all Vedanta philosophy because its subject matter is The Absolute Truth.

The goal of this transcendental literature is to free our self from the clutches of this material existence that is going on since time immemorial by encouraging renunciation and inculcate exclusive devotion to the Supreme Truth, the permanent reality!

In this material universe, even Lord Brahma, the topmost living being who has the longest lifespan is not free from the four vices of material existence – birth, death, disease and old age, anxiously desires salvation and the Supreme personality of Godhead, Lord Shri Krishna mercifully explained the science of Srimad Bhagavatham to him.

Sri Sukadeva Gosvami(son of Maharishi Veda Vyasa, the literary incarnation of God and the author of Srimad Bhagavatham), the best of mystic sages and a personal manifestation of the Absolute Truth narrated Srimad Bhagavatham to Maharaja Pariksit having been bitten by a snake due to a curse and had only seven days to live, delivered him from the clutches of material existence by narrating Srimad Bhagavatam in entirety to him.

Reflections on Srimad Bhagavatham Canto 1

Introduction: Srimad Bhagavatham is considered the foremost and prominent of all Puranas as is mentioned in other Puranas like Garuda Purana and Skanda Purana. Srimad Bhagavatham is the essence of Vedanta and a natural commentary of Vedanta sutra, both compiled by Srila Vyasadev. Srimad Bhagavatham is like a torch that can redeem us from this dense dark age of Kali.

Srimad Bhagavatham is the spotless Purana. It is most dear to the Vaisnavas because it describes the pure and supreme knowledge of the enlightened. – Srimad Bhagavatham – 12.13.18.

The twenty-six qualities of a Vaisnava mentioned by Srila Prabhupada’s purport to Srimad Bhagavatham – 5.18.12 are:

(1) Very kind to everyone.

(2) Does not make anyone his/her enemy.

(3) Truthful.

(4) Equal to everyone.

(5) No one can find any fault in him/her.

(6) Magnanimous.

(7) Mild.

(8) Always clean.

(9) Without possessions.

(10) Works for everyone’s benefit.

(11) Very peaceful.

(12) Always surrendered to Krishna.

(13) Has no material desires.

(14) Very meek.

(15) Steady.

(16) Controls the senses.

(17) Does not eat more than required.

(18) Not influenced by the Lord’s illusory energy.

(19) Offers respect to everyone.

(20) Does not desire any respect for himself/herself.

(21) Very grave.

(22) Merciful.

(23) Friendly.

(24) Poetic.

(25) Expert.

(26) Silent.

Regular study of Srimad Bhagavatham will definitely develop these qualities in us and enable us to reach the abode of Lord Shri Krishna.

Canto 1 reflects several prominent Vaishnava characters and their exalted behaviour under exacting circumstances. They are a great lesson for us to inculcate. They are highly inspirational and the way they conquered their senses due to their devotion to Lord Krishna is exemplary.

I attempt to reflect on these qualities that would inspire us to achieve similar results:

  1. Narada – Epitome of Bhakti (devotion – always surrendered to Krishna).
  2. Draupadi – Epitome of Dhaya (mercifulness) – Srimad Bhagavatham – 1.7.43-48.
  3. Queen Kunti – Unalloyed devotion to Lord Shri Krishna – Srimad Bhagavatham – 1.8.18-43.
  4. Vidura – Epitome of Dharma – Srimad Bhagavatham –1.13.18-30.
  5. The Pandavas.
  6. Maharaj Parikshit – The examiner – Last 7 days of life Vs temporary material existence.

Narada: Even after compiling the Vedas and the great Mahabharata, the great sage Srila Vyasadev felt despondent. Sage Narada approached Srila Vyasadev and asked him to describe the transcendental pastimes of Lord Shri Krishna more vividly and exclusively.

Sage Narada described his birth as the son of a maid servant in his previous birth and how he developed the unalloyed qualities of a Vaishnava.

Even as a small boy, Narada engaged himself in the personal service of Vaishnavas, being self-controlled, peaceful and did not eat or speak than required. He always listened to the glories of Lord Shri Krishna. Due to his exemplary behaviour, he was instructed with the most confidential knowledge from the sages.

When his mother was bitten by a serpent, the boy was not at all perturbed, but utilised the transcendental knowledge to gain self-realisation by severe penance. He was ultimately reborn as Narada Muni in his next birth.

Draupadi: Draupadi’s Vaishnava qualities is really very difficult to surpass. When her five children was brutally murdered during their sleep by Aswatthama and this act was disapproved even by the heinous Duryodhana, Draupadi asked Arjuna to release him from the shackles. She gave due respects to him and said Guru Dronacharya still exist in the form of his son and that Krpi, the mother of Aswatthama should not get to lament for the loss of her son.

Thus Draupadi is kind, equal and offer respects to everyone, merciful, magnanimous, peaceful, does not make anyone her enemy and above all not at all influenced by the Lord’s illusory energy. This also shows she is always surrendered to Krishna. She clearly understands everything is temporary in this world and always ready to sacrifice for a higher cause.

Queen Kunti: Queen Kunti’s unflinching devotion to Lord Krishna had managed to keep every trouble at bay. After Aswatthama intended to kill Uttara’s son by invoking the Brahmastra again, Lord Krishna neutralised it. Queen Kunti offered her prayers to Lord Krishna establishing her as an exemplary Vaishnava. Her prayers clearly indicate that she is not influenced by the Lord’s illusory energy which could delude those who are not Krishna Conscious. She is very meek and gentle. She has no material desires as mentioned below:

” My Lord, Your Lordship can easily be approached, but only by those who are materially exhausted. One who is on the path of material progress, trying to improve himself with respectable parentage, great opulence, high education and bodily beauty, cannot approach You with sincere feeling. My obeisances are unto You, who are the property of the materially impoverished.” – Srimad Bhagavatham – 1.8.26-27.

Vidura: Vidura is a staunch devotee of Lord Krishna and an ardent well-wisher of the Pandavas. Vidura was always detached, free from material desire and without any possessions. He offers respect to everyone but does not desire any respect for himself as can be evidenced when Duryodhana spoke to him very harshly after he offered sound advice to Dhritarashtra to hand over half the kingdom to Pandavas. Vidura just kept his bow on the door side and left the place without saying any word thus displaying his immense control of senses.

Vidura is very kind to everyone and works for everyone’s benefit. Due to unequivocal advice to his brother King Dhritharashtra, he managed to break him from the shackles of his degraded existence in the house of Bhima to a life of renunciation and then liberation. (Srimad Bhagavatham 1.13.18-30)

The Pandavas: The Pandavas dedicated themselves to Lord Shri Krishna throughout their life, so much that as soon they heard about the disappearance of Lord Krishna and the impending arrival of Kali, they relinquished everything! (Srimad Bhagavatham 1.15) While this act is considered almost impossible for us in this age, it will be virtuous for us to study the Mahabharata to know about their tribulations and how they overcame it.

Maharaja Parikshit:  Maharaja Parikshit was under the tutelage of his illustrious grandfathers, the Pandavas and is therefore naturally a staunch Vaishnava. He is always surrendered to Krishna, does not make anyone his enemy (his enemies offers themselves to him), offers respect to everyone, merciful (even to the Personality of Kali when he sought his surrender). Even after knowing the curse that he will die within 7 days due to snakebite, he displayed immense control of his senses with no material desires and offered to surrender himself exclusively to Lord Krishna by fasting until death.

Conclusion: The main takeaway from Canto 1 is this: Our existence in this world is temporary and death can strike us any moment. King Parikshit is fortunate enough to know it a week before and was able to realise the absolute truth but we are not so fortunate. We live a very busy life dedicating very little time to read, understand and apply the knowledge of our scriptures, especially Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatham to our lives. However, if we are able to inculcate these Vaishnava qualities during the course of our life, our life will be successful. For this, the study of Srimad Bhagavatham plays a very important role.

Conversation 022 – Constitutional position of the soul (Revisited…)

Seeker 1: When we are considering our body as temple and God within the body as ParaMaatma residing along with individual aatma, everybody must have the spiritual quality. Only the question is this may take time to understand for everybody according to their fitness. Am I correct? Otherwise I can think otherwise.

Seeker 2: You are correct. Lack of knowledge about the body and its specified purpose is the root cause of suffering everyone is undergoing. (ksetram and ksetra-jnam – Bhagavad Gita Chapter 13)

Seeker 2: Just like the sanctity of the temple is maintained so is the 9 gates (entrances and exits) of the body — that sanctity has to be maintained.

Seeker 2: Human body is said to be the city of 9 gates – 2 eyes, 2 nostrils, 2 ears, mouth, and organ of urination and organ of defecation. Each with its specific function and purpose. Abuse to the functions is the cause of bondage of the soul.

Seeker 1: Those days we had no courage to enquire on these topics with anyone. If we inquire, reply will be indifferent.

Seeker 2: Yes, this is because bodily concept of life is so much rooted in this Kali Yuga. Aatma is pure spirit and it doesn’t have actual connection with the body or the gunas (sattvic, rajasic and tamasic) … however if it identifies with the external mind and take that as real then the real problem starts.

Seeker 2: Whatever I say it has got connotation to Srimad Bhagavatam and Narada Muni’s actual statement to various conditioned entities ranging from Dhruva, King Prachinabhari, Prahlad Maharaj, and King Chitraketu etc. to make them liberated by providing the real knowledge.

Seeker 2: This is real knowledge. The rest are just nescience!

Related posts:

  1. Conversation 019 – Constitutional position of the soul (Contd…)
  2. Conversation 018 – Constitutional position of the soul

Conversation 019 – Constitutional position of the soul (Contd…)

This interesting conversation comes as a refreshing continuation of my previous post titled Sun! raised by an intuitive seeker. Please read the conversation that follows…

Seeker 1: Very nice. In analogy the sun is a single entity, but for us it’s we and supreme are two entities. Please explain. So when we realize the truth … we are also one entity???

Seeker 2: We and supreme can never become one!

Seeker 2: We are eternal fragmented parts of the supreme…

Seeker 2: Please check Bhagavad Gita 15.7 – https://asitis.com/15/7.html

Seeker 2: When we realize the truth we become supreme associates of the supreme!

Seeker 2: The Purport explains it clearly…

Seeker 2: More beautiful information explained scientifically here…

Seeker 2: https://amitray.com/crossing-viraja-river-entering-timeless-universe/

Seeker 2: it’s highly deep and conceptual…

Seeker 2: just a warning…😇

Seeker 2: Everything mentioned in that article is simply superb except this statement that could be found disputable according to Vaishnavites… “When atman raises from Viraja river after a bath, all contamination are removed and merged with the unchanging, un-decaying absolute cosmic consciousness.” According to Sri Vaishnava Philosophy… and according to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu… “Achintya bheda bheda tattva” i.e. the jiva is one with God in quality and different from Him in quantity… We remain eternal servants of the Supreme Lord Sriman Narayana even in the Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana realm!

Seeker 2: What that has been mentioned here is Advaita of Srila Sankaracharya Bhagavatpada that is not acceptable to a Vaishnava and is refuted by Sri Ramanujacharya and Sri Vedanta Desika…and has been emphasized multiple times in Srimad Bhagavatam.

Seeker 2: Thanks for bringing this topic… surely an eye opener…👍

Seeker 1: Very good explanation. Thanks for your humble service..🙏

Seeker 1: Being available to help us gain clarity.

Seeker 2: My pleasure…

Related posts:

  1. Conversation 018 – Constitutional position of the soul
  2.  Conversation 022 – Constitutional position of the soul (Revisited)

Conversation 017 – Ill Effects of Kali Yuga and its remedy

In this conversation, the symptoms of Kali Yuga or the age of quarrel is briefly described and the only remedy to come out of this dreadful situation is also mentioned.

Seeker 1: In Kali Yuga, “wealth alone will be considered the sign of a mans good birth, proper behaviour and fine qualities. Law and justice will be applied only on the basis of ones power”. Refer Srimad Bhagavatam 12.2.2 (https://vedabase.io/en/library/sb/12/2/2/)

Seeker 2: Hmm yes. This is from the chapter Symptoms of Kali Yuga…

Seeker 1: and success in business will depend on deceit.

Seeker 2:  You can observe this in the present situation in the modern world, everything described above is happening as predicted. So how can anyone dispute the knowledge contained in the Puranas and Vedas?

Seeker 1: See this statement: “A persons spiritual position will be ascertained merely according to external symbols, and on that same basis people will change from one spiritual order to the next. A persons propriety will be seriously questioned if he does not earn a good living”. (https://vedabase.io/en/library/sb/12/2/4/)

Seeker 2: Yes, this age (Kali) is a total violation of Vedic principles and moral values. It is a crazy world. The Vedic knowledge is getting totally lost. It is becoming a dog-eat-dog world now! It is a world where iPhones, BMWs etc. have become status symbols and the knowledge of attaining the real purpose of life is getting discarded!

Seeker 1: What does it mean? I am not getting you!

Seeker 2: I mean, the world has become extremely materialistic. Everyone just gets involved in these materialistic pursuits. Everyone eats to live and not live to eat – that is the main cause of bondage in this material world! There are only a handful of people who know the basic values of life and follows it religiously. This spiritual need among the mankind will not arise as long as the cat and mouse pursuit of materialistic endeavours persists.

Seeker 1: So, when will things improve?

Seeker 2: We have to study the lives of so many saints and acharyas which are full of sacrifice and moral values to attain the highest truth. Even if we inculcate a minute portions in our life, we are on the right path!

Seeker 1: The Vedas says it is all in your hands. You can change it with your desires / thoughts / actions / decisions etc

Seeker 2: Yes, but Vedas are esoteric and are easily prone to misinterpretations subject to the mind of the person deciphering it. They are eternal revelations. They don’t give the actual meaning. Srimad Bhagavatam itself says Vedas cannot clearly explain the absolute truth. It can only show the path and it is for us to realise based on that knowledge. They only explain people to follow the right path through the principle of reward and punishment or carrot and stick – the laws of karma hold supreme sway!

It is just like what Jada Bharath says about King Rahugana in Srimad Bhagavatam 5.11.1 – “My dear King, although you are not at all experienced, you are trying to speak like a very experienced man. Consequently, you cannot be considered an experienced person. An experienced person does not speak the way you are speaking about the relationship between a master and a servant or about material pains and pleasures.” (https://vedabase.io/en/library/sb/5/11/1/) The common people are all in the same category as the King Rahugana – though their knowledge is extremely limited they think as if they know everything!

Seeker 1: Yeah!

Seeker 2: This supreme knowledge comes from the Supreme Lord. We are but a mere instrument in the hands of Him. Like what Krishna says to Arjuna in the Gita, if we realise it and our attitude remains this way, the progress we attain is immeasurable! because we know we are not attaining anything by ourselves and for ourselves!!!

Seeker 1: I did not get you – what does it mean by attitude remains this way?

Seeker 2: It means that we are not the doer. All activities are carried out by the 3 modes of material nature – goodness, passion and ignorance. We are just an instrument. If we think we are the doer the concept of “I” or false ego comes into the picture and binds us to the cycle of birth and death! I always come back to the sloka 18.66 of Bhagavat Gita on this – that is the final instruction given to Arjun by Lord Krishna in the Gita! After explaining all the paths to liberation viz., Karma, Gyan and Bhakti yoga clearly, He finally states only the complete and absolute surrender to Him is the safest and easiest path to attain liberation. (http://asitis.com/18/66.html).