Conversation 060 – Inner Engineering?

This is really a lengthy conversation with my best friend. I am breaking it into multiple posts for our convenience. Thank you very much for reading!

Seeker 1: Have you heard about ISHA Kriya and their program on Inner Engineering?

Seeker 2: Yeah … I have heard about it.

Seeker 2: Most people blindly get into these kinds of things in the name of yoga and meditation because they are unable to manage stress in their life but want relief through some shortcut means.

Seeker 2: Nobody wants to put sincere efforts by subjecting their body and be self-controlled. With no proper diet control nothing can be ever achieved!

Seeker 2: If one says inner engineering is possible for anyone that means he is only interested towards money making by trying to exploit these kinds of people. However, if he is scrutinizing in selecting people for the program he is genuinely interested in the welfare of the people. Otherwise the tendencies of these modern day “gurus” is to cheat with false promises just to extract money for their establishment.

Seeker 1: What is the best way then? Is this the only way? Do you know the best diet control? I believe it again changes from person to person based on body type. It’s not possible for every human being??  Why not if one practice it?

Seeker 2: People have to throw away their bad habits first (primarily intoxication, meat eating, gambling and unregulated sex habits) and be sober for quite a while before indulging into inner engineering or things like that. Otherwise whatever one tries, his efforts will not be effective.

Seeker 2: Most “gurus” starts with strict principles in the beginning but gets diluted midway because the profit motive and “preaching according to the nature of people” comes into picture. Original intentions and the principles will get slowly lost in the course of time and in the name of flexibility and advertisements and with constant pestering for donations in the name of introducing philanthropy to common people by bring a false hope that one can compensate for bad karma in the name of these kind of donations!

Seeker 2: One is going to reap for whatever one has done no matter what, if not from this birth, from all the previous births! People are not aware of basic principles and without any basic knowledge on scriptures do everything nonsense and blame everything as they continue to struggle with problems in life. This includes the so called educated who claims they know everything but in practicality, their life is only oriented towards money making and gaining high positions in society, which are all temporary and do not lead to any higher purpose either in this life or after death!

Seeker 1: Hahaha … nicely said though! But my basic question remain what is best diet plan and how to find that plan suits one’s body??? If everything our moods/ emotions / thoughts are dependent on what one eats???

Seeker 2: Yes, surely it gradually builds over the years.

Seeker 1: What is the best diet plan and how to get to it without any complications?

Seeker 2: Mainly because food is also classified into three modes and so one becomes what one eats!

Seeker 1: Three modes?

Seeker 2: Check this post for details on the three modes of material nature: Conversation 026 – Modes of material nature (and beyond)

Seeker 2: Yes – Goodness, Passion and Ignorance or Sattvic, Rajasic and Tamasic.

Seeker 1: Yeah. All is mentioned in Bhagavad Gita. One should ignore Tamasic and Rajasic types of food? That is best one to follow…

Seeker 2: Yes, Different types of food and how one is according to what one eats! If one does not read and live according to Bhagavad Gita his life is really a failure in spiritual terms!

Related Posts:

1. Trying to be a preceptor in a mundane world!
2. Conversation 056 – Trying to be a preceptor in a mundane world
3. Conversation 041 – Fasting on Ekadashis
4. Conversation 040: Food and Laziness / Dullness
5. Directions for having food

(Continued…)

Conversation 056 – Trying to be a preceptor in a mundane world

The context of this conversation is based on a hypothetical  situation in corporate world (not hypothetical anymore (LOL) because this world is pretty much ruled by 99% category at this point of time☹), where a senior personnel (Mr.Y) is laid off abruptly and he is conversing with another colleague (now ex-colleague) who is also his good friend (Mr.X).

Mr.X: This post that you shared: Data warehousing and its architecture is really useful. Thank you very much. Sure, I am going through this right now. The blog post Mental Maturity that you shared is also equally good 😊

Mr.Y: Thank you very much 😊. The need of the hour is to tolerate with mentally deficient people.

Mr.X: Yes, by showing empathy!

Mr. Y: Yes, I no longer need it at this point but you need to ☹ I have already fallen down and not much to fall further…

Mr.X: Yes, I can understand. I am thinking of this only day in and day out.

Mr.Y: And you have to come out of the situation quickly for your mental health!

Mr.X: Fair enough. I have to study day in and day out to get out. otherwise they will eat me for sure ☹

Mr. Y:  Yes, it’s quite tough nowadays since the market is also not that good… you got to push through some good contacts. You got to think on those lines also!

Mr.X: ☹I will try.

Mr. Y: But still some effort to try through direct means as well is also useful, or whatever since that is still better than sitting idle in this sinking ship.

Mr.X: Yes, I totally agree.

Mr. Y: I don’t think they can stand long in the industry with this kind of attitude to everyone though. I am saying it to you because I know about you fairly well.

Mr.X: Correct, I can understand.

Mr. Y: Because I see the trend is getting worse over the years as I am watching on this attitude towards the employees. When the company is quite small, they tend to treat the employees fairly well. But when the company has grown exponentially, they want the employees to become their slaves by imposing arbitrary policies!

Mr.X: Yes! The trend has definitely changed over the years and it is changing for really worse for the employees.

Mr.X: Did you get any talks with some other organisations on your next employment?

Mr. Y: I have been doing it all the time but nothing is fruitful so far.

Mr. Y: It’s better for you to think they have made you resign and your notice period has already started and try for a job in this attitude. That’s my sincere advice if it all you really realise the gravity of the situation. And the career is already getting into a drain every day you stay there anyway!

Mr.X: Yes, this is pretty much happening ☹.

Mr. Y: So please think like this because you know they can do anything and you can do nothing about it. And you only will regret later because Its back to square one for you whatever be it.

Mr.X: Yes.

Mr. Y: I am not ringing any alarm bells because you very much know the reality in this very place. You can’t afford to lose out and sit like me naively trusting everyone under the sun ☹

Mr.X: 😊

Mr.Y: I trust people so much and every time I have seen them only let me down and I don’t learn any lessons any time because I think I am trustworthy and expect the same to get reciprocated, but unfortunately luck has not favoured me for not even a single instance so far.

Mr.X: I can understand what all you are going through. I can see it clearly.

Mr. Y: So, it is better to learn lessons from others and rather than face it yourself and then learn from it. When the sufferer comes and explains the predicaments to you sincerely, you got to take it whole-heartedly because “The sufferer only knows the suffering of the suffered.” ☹

Mr.X: Yes

Mr. Y: That’s why I am patiently talking to you.

Mr.X: This is very true.

Mr. Y: I am old and mature enough to handle it but I don’t think the youth of today can. At least the majority can’t bear it for sure.

Mr.X: yes, this is correct.

Mr. Y: What you can think of this in these situations when kids are at the peak of their education, a big home mortgage is on and the family expenses to handle and someone called “employer” to whom to put your heart and soul abruptly says, it’s all over this very moment???

Mr.X: hmm!!!

Mr. Y: You saw this reality that happened right in front of you to a person very well known to you right?

Mr.X: Yes, I was in shock. I told you. I had a lot going in my head at that moment.

Mr. Y: If this doesn’t ring alarm bells what else will?

Mr.X: Yes, Correct. this is something beyond comparison and was a shocker to me.

Mr. Y: No one can change anyone in this world because it is in their nature to remain as to whomever they are, since this attitude has been inherited from over countless lifetimes and also the upbringing in this present lifetime and also the nature of this age☹

Mr.X: Yes!

Mr. Y: You are because what you are and you are longing to be virtuous. Demons only long to be demons, because everything is in the corresponding nature. So, there is nothing much one can do about this and simply learn this truth to further better ourselves in the midst of the tortures from them.

Mr.X: Yes, I fully agree.

Mr. Y: These are the lessons no one will teach you but we have to learn yourself through introspection and learn to get mature through it by life experiences. And getting better and better with every such torturous experiences, so much so, that there will come a point when you will not feel anything as a torture but only as a blessing to better yourself further 🙂 . If one reaches this level he will come to a stage when he will be able to transform at least one person in an otherwise no one is “transferable world”, that would really be the biggest achievement in one’s life because it’s really not easy to lift another soul and absolutely nothing even comes closer to that ever.

Mr. Y: Really!

Mr. Y: That too if that is done without any expectations or rewards, no harm can even come closer to that person whatsoever.

Mr.X: Fair enough.

Mr. Y: That is the summary conclusion of Karma yoga in Bhagavad Gita – Working without expectation of rewards to attain perfection. So, please that got to be fair enough 🙂

Mr.X: Yes, I agree.

Mr. Y: I don’t want anything in life. Because nothing is permanent. I only want to sustain my near and dear as long as I am there. Our actions and its results are only permanent imprints of ourselves.

Mr.X: Yes.

Mr. Y: I don’t know if I am really going deep into philosophy and not even sure whether you are inclined into these subject matters. But I know you as a sincere person, these things definitely appeal to you. Otherwise you will not come to me because hardly anyone come to me on anything. I am a 100% loner though I get along well with everyone superficially and always try to keep them in good humour. And I am always willing to share whatever I can, but everyone feels superior according to themselves and so they don’t find the need to know anything from others!

Mr.X: I can relate to things what is happening and what is going on. So, I am just preparing myself for any eventuality.

Mr. Y: Yes, wishing you the very best!

Mr.X: Thanks, I will prepare myself otherwise this world will swallow me! You have always been open and ready to help anyone at anytime as much as i have seen 😊

Mr. Y: 😊 I have to step out…  We will surely continue and stay in touch wherever we are. Do let me know…I am always available for any assistance any time you want…

Mr.X: Thank you again so much. All the very best to you too!

Mr. Y: Thank you very much!

Conclusion: Mr. Y is still looking for that elusive job opportunity as I am publishing this post. He is in a burnout state as of now ☹ inside but doesn’t know how to show it outside, probably because he has been mentally drained all through his life… 😊

“This too shall pass…“

Magnificence of Srimad Bhagavatham

I have been mentioning at least one passage from Srimad Bhagavatham in most of my posts.

Now, I would like to mention the magnificence of this transcendental literature, which is verily Lord Shri Krishna Himself in a literary form, just meant for liberating us from this age of darkness:

“Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the spotless Purāṇa. It is most dear to the Vaiṣṇavas because it describes the pure and supreme knowledge of the paramahaṁsas. This Bhāgavatam reveals the means for becoming free from all material work, together with the processes of transcendental knowledge, renunciation and devotion. Anyone who seriously tries to understand Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, who properly hears and chants it with devotion, becomes completely liberated.” – SB 12.13.18.

Srimad Bhagavatham was first revealed by The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Shri Krishna to Lord Brahma, the creator of this universe when he was anxious of how to proceed with the creation process.

Srimad Bhagavatham is the essence of all Vedanta philosophy because its subject matter is The Absolute Truth.

The goal of this transcendental literature is to free our self from the clutches of this material existence that is going on since time immemorial by encouraging renunciation and inculcate exclusive devotion to the Supreme Truth, the permanent reality!

In this material universe, even Lord Brahma, the topmost living being who has the longest lifespan is not free from the four vices of material existence – birth, death, disease and old age, anxiously desires salvation and the Supreme personality of Godhead, Lord Shri Krishna mercifully explained the science of Srimad Bhagavatham to him.

Sri Sukadeva Gosvami(son of Maharishi Veda Vyasa, the literary incarnation of God and the author of Srimad Bhagavatham), the best of mystic sages and a personal manifestation of the Absolute Truth narrated Srimad Bhagavatham to Maharaja Pariksit having been bitten by a snake due to a curse and had only seven days to live, delivered him from the clutches of material existence by narrating Srimad Bhagavatam in entirety to him.

Conversation 045 – People’s mind set (Contd.)

Seeker 2:

Why is BJP and NDA not able to win even a single seat in Kerala and Tamilnadu despite having a great success in the North India in 2019 election? Remember our conversation past midnight that day and relate to it 🙂

Remember our conversation past midnight that day and relate to it 🙂

Seeker 1: These guys have nailed it beautifully!

Seeker 2: Yes, I tried to explain that to you for 2 hours (rofl), the conversation that started past midnight, the other day 😦

Seeker 1: I never denied that. I only put forward the hope that with proper guidance things can change. Change is inevitable.

Seeker 2: I understand that but it takes time and that’s not in the hands of anyone.

Seeker 1: God’s wish in everything 🙂 https://qr.ae/TWGhta and this analogy 🙂 https://qr.ae/TWGhtB.

Seeker 2: Thank you very much…actually God didn’t send us to the Earth in the first place! Earth is just a temporary sojourn for the living entity to go back to God. Living entities were already existing for yugas or epoch. This is according to Srimad Bhagavatham.

Seeker 2: During annihilation, all beings enter into the body of the universal form of the Lord and during creation, they are recreated back according to their karma. This is a perpetual cycle.

Seeker 2: Bhagavad Gita is a summary or final conclusions of The Upanishads expressed in esoteric terms. It doesn’t go with clear cut explanations and scenarios, because it has only 700 shlokas while Srimad Bhagavatham is a massive treatise of 18000 shlokas/verses.

Seeker 2: You know this…the soul is eternal…the body is perishable having made of material elements…that themselves are creatable and destroyable…

“O King, in all circumstances, whether you consider the soul to be an eternal principle, or the material body to be perishable, or everything to exist in the impersonal Absolute Truth, or everything to be an inexplicable combination of matter and spirit, feelings of separation are due only to illusory affection and nothing more.” – Srimad Bhagavatham – 1.13.44

“Those who have full knowledge of self-realization, who know very well that the spirit soul is eternal whereas the body is perishable, are not overwhelmed by lamentation. But persons who lack knowledge of self-realization certainly lament. Therefore it is difficult to educate a person in illusion.” – Srimad Bhagavatham – 7.2.49

Seeker 2: These guys are trying to make common people understand who cannot think beyond a certain level, at least to ensure that they live proper lives using the knowledge, but that is never going to happen. The world starting from the mother’s womb to the graveyard just stinks!

Seeker 2: Everything is subject to refinement of one’s character to align with how nature works, how creation works, how maintenance works, how annihilation works.

Seeker 2: The modern man is incapable of comprehending these things even to extent of 0.000……1% because of the pollution accumulated over the ages … in mind, in thought, in deeds, in  actions, in habits, in virtues…everyone is just trying out mundane explanations to convince themselves and others but not putting into practice what they preach.

Seeker 2: It’s not easy to change the world around unless people think on these lines…and this is never going to happen…because it all start with one’s food habits…when that itself is a big zero what can you expect?

Seeker 1: Our Guru never went into Srimad Bhagavatham. He used to focus on mainly on The Upanishads and sometime Bhagavad Gita. Some people say that Gita is so deep that you can’t get its meaning easily as many of these shlokas have multiple hidden meanings for one who’s really thinking in depth about them.

Seeker 2: Yes, Guru is very much right and real Gurus are always right! but Srimad Bhagavatham is very direct and is the ripened mature fruit of Vedic literature when Ved Vyasa was fully realised on Narada Muni’s instructions, so as to communicate to what the common man in the dark age of Kali could comprehend.

Seeker 2: Gita is the cream of Vedanta or Veda-anta i.e. literatures…Upanishads by itself are more esoteric and to say the cream of the Upanishads is packed in 700 shlokas, it has got to be very deep that only realised persons can understood it to a “certain” extent! So many people have tried to interpret it…and so many mis-interpretations!!!

Seeker 1: True, got your point. That is what I was hearing today. The tacit knowledge of the Guru needs to be explicitly put into easily understandable form for common people. That is what Srimad Bhagavatham is achieving,

Seeker 1: In Bhagavad Gita, knowledge was given to Arjuna by Lord Shri Krishna to relieve his confusion. Similarly, what is the setting of Srimad Bhagavatham?

Seeker 2: When Maharaja Parikshit, a great saintly king, the grandson of Arjuna and an utmost devotee of Lord Krishna was about to die in 7 seven days due to snake bite because of a curse by the son (Shringi) of the great sage, Samika, he at once quit his family life to do fast unto death. Sukhdev Goswami, son of Maharishi Ved Vyasa, having learnt Srimad Bhagavatham from his father narrates it in entirety during these 7 days. Maharaja Parikishit realises the absolute truth and attains the supreme perfection.

Seeker 1: Ahh! I see

Seeker 2: In these 7 days he didn’t even drink water, what to think of food and listened with rapt attention to Sukhdev Goswami. The many questions he asked during this time and the answers Ved Vyasa’s son gave is the subject matter of Srimad Bhagavatham.

This makes me think of this passage:

“My dear King, a self-satisfied person can be happy even with only drinking water. However, one who is driven by the senses, especially by the tongue and genitals, must accept the position of a household dog to satisfy his senses.” – Srimad Bhagavatham – 7.15.18

Seeker 1: I see. There’s mention of Krishna’s life in this also. RIght?

Seeker 2: Yes, that’s is the climax and the crux of Srimad Bhagavatham! The entire 10th canto is devoted to this and this is almost one-fourth of the entire Srimad Bhagavatham!

Seeker 1: I remember hearing that a bit!

Related posts:

1.  Conversation 043 – People’s mindset
2.  Conversation 041 – Fasting on Ekadashis
3.  Conversation 040: Food and Laziness / Dullness
4. Directions for having food
5. Conversation 028: Politics and Religion
6.  Lemon-Water
7.  People on the street
8. Conversation 017 – Ill Effects of Kali Yuga and its remedy

Conversation 043 – People’s mindset

This conversation discusses about the general mindset of the people of two southern most states of India, Tamil Nadu and Kerala on consistent inclination towards regional political parties and almost total rejection of national political parties across multiple general elections, taking into consideration a complete rout in these states, when the national party outperformed in the rest of the country, exceeding expectations, as witnessed in the recent general election results.

The conversation is between a curious North Indian eagerly trying to find out the reason, with his close friend, a Tamil (yours truly) (a bit animated, as you would expect it to be 🙂 ), on this subject.

Seeker 1: I hear that Tamil Nadu and Kerala is the next focus for the national parties for the future elections if they are maintain a clear mandate.

Seeker 2: People’s mindset in these two states are unlikely to change in near future. The language Malayalam is considered to be the younger sister (affectionately called as “Thangachi” (தங்கச்சி)) or “than katchi” (தன கட்சி) – company of the like with the Tamil language. So the two states are always unique from the rest of the country on everything and similar to each other in almost everything.

National parties cannot have much impact in these states as long as they are oriented towards the dominantly speaking language in the rest of the country.

The influence and the devotion to the state language in these two states is extremely strong and is incomparable to anywhere or with any culture. I don’t think you will see anywhere in the world where people even go to the extent of even committing suicide when any outside forces try to cause disrepute to the language. This can happen only with the people of Tamil Nadu. This has already been witnessed in the 1960s and that impact hasn’t subsided much.                                               

Seeker 1: There’s always a solution I believe. Some great leader who has uniting qualities can do the trick.                                          

Seeker 2: If you read the wiki on what happened in the 1960s, you will be out of words. No way!

I have been in this culture for life and even I will go to any extent if the language is offended. This is not fanaticism but this is due to the strong roots of the language because of its ancient nature, the heritage, the literatures, the ingrained tradition etc. Tamil is just one of the very few classical language that is present in every continent and continue to thrive as ever. (Tamil Diaspora)

Seeker 1: But who’s damaging the culture, language etc.?                                           

Seeker 2: I have just mentioned it and you are asking it again! The language is equated to life itself in this part of the world. Definitely the attitude of all the central governments right through in trying to impose “alien language” to them, when it is least required has never really worked out well. We never have any intention to impose our language all over the place then why we should we be subjected to this? Any non-regional party, alien to Tamil, is alien to people of Tamil Nadu that’s all! Again, I am only talking about the big majority of population, as is evident. There are lots of people who are neutral in this aspect as well, but that is minor.              

Seeker 1: National parties will be any day better than the local regional parties. Then, why?

Seeker 2: You can’t say that and change that mindset of the people of Tamil Nadu (or Kerala). Friend, this is a vain argument!         

Seeker 1: I think people will get more flexible. With love and compassion, when it’s for the larger good, people would rise above personal gains, it’s about dharma. Language is just a medium…

Seeker 2: When certain things are ingrained in their blood for generations, this is not the case. You have to come and live here (in Tamil Nadu) for at least a month to realize that, not by living some 2500 kilometers away when you cannot even imagine the ground realities.                           

Seeker 1: Ultimately it’s about seeking Brahman.

Seeker 2: What Brahman? (LOL) Welcome to the real word yaar (dear friend) (LOL). What you are saying may sound pleasant to idealistic or self-realised souls, but not to the general majority of people driven by passionate and fanatic people around, the atheists and pseudo-religious people dominating the political climate.  

Seeker 1: But, I could see people of Bengal and North East have changed their mindset, why not the people of Tamil Nadu and Kerala?                                           

Seeker 2: I guess they are not known to have that much affinity to their language, because of the similarities in script etc. when compared to Tamils.

Seeker 1: Oh! Then why don’t you write about this and influence your people. Why are you being so pessimistic? I’m sorry. But I think you should believe in the power of positivity.                                 

Seeker 2: By saying about “your” people, are you taking about separatism and that we are not a part of this country? Ok, then I need to make you understand on this with facts and figures. But this will digress our discussion. You can google for that and find out yourself. Easily said when you are not considering something called reality.                                

Seeker 1: I never said it is easy. I believe in where there is a will there is a way. How can the national political parties take away Tamil from Tamilians? I don’t understand the logic. Our guru used to say that it is imperative to preserve your local language. No compromise on this.                                      

Seeker 2: That people ingrained here will know better. The culture and the mindset is totally different, dude. For the kind of devotion, the people have for their language…

the bigger picture and interests doesn’t come into picture!

It’s not national party or anything, it’s just the LANGUAGE that’s it…end of story.                                            

Seeker 1: So, no compromise on that? Ha ha…                                  

Seeker 2: Ask your Guru to do sermons to the people of Tamil Nadu and change them if possible in this aspect.  He can’t do it and nobody in the world can do it I bet at this point of time.

Seeker 1: Ha ha.

Seeker 2: Look at the election results and see for yourself. Every time the results are in a contradiction with the rest of the country. Analyze the previous election results, and you will know it better. Okay you will be following politics for the rest of your let and let me know wherever we are let me know when you expect this to happen, I will also be very happy J certain things cannot be just compared, dear friend. Just remember what happened during the Jallikattu protests (Please read about this, at least, to see the impact it created on the rest of the country/world), an uncompromising show unity never seen before for a cultural practice, a couple of years back, I was there on the battleground – Marina beach, Chennai with 1000s of people coming from all over the state to express solidarity, the conversations and the camaraderie shown. I can’t explain in words, yaar, much on the feelings on the language on the heart of the people because the damage that has been done by the outsiders on the Tamil culture.

It’s always the regional parties, no matter what, the seemingly lesser corrupt wins that time that’s all. This is just because of their contribution to the Tamil language, all through these years, that’s all, nothing else. End of story.

Seeker 1: Ha ha.                                              

Seeker 2: It’s futile to stand on mountain top and talk things happening on the ground. That summarize this discussion.

Seeker 1: I don’t remember anything offhand but I believe that there might have been greater transformations in this world. When the whole prakriti (earth) is just a god’s dream, any great fanaticism will have to succumb to it. When it’s god’s own will…

 Seeker 2: Man, I also can quote lot of examples even in this but this is not the time for it. That will maybe happen in an epoch, but not definitely not in our lifetime  …                            

Seeker 1: I don’t disagree with that.

Seeker 2: You are too utopic and always thinking on the positive side.                                   

Seeker 1: But having said that, Stranger things have always happened.                                 

Seeker 2: But negative elements tremendously outweigh the positive in Kali Yuga. You have read Srimad Bhagavatham… so you know how much bad habits has been ingrained among the people of this age. Brain development on spiritual subject is almost zero among 99.99999% population.  

Seeker 1: Hmm. But I was asking my Guruji and he said that God maintains that balance. I always find good people around. And my heart also goes like that, you know…                                    

Seeker 2: That means I can say you don’t have much exposure to the outside world, or you are too utopic. The first one is not possible because you are living in a city, the second one is very much possible because of your extremely optimistic attitude towards seemingly impossible things!

Seeker 1: I guess you visit our hinterland you’ll find people willing to help you beyond what you might have expected. I experienced that at my in-laws place. That was something on the other side of the city.                                       

Seeker 2: Okay, How much is the area of hinterland compared to the land area of this earth??? Tell me.                               

Seeker 1: Even one small place in Rajasthan I had a similar experience. I feel it is the cities where you mentioned, this proportion may be high, but rural India is still strong…

Seeker 2: You keep sticking to what you are saying no matter what J You are talking about 0.00001% how can that influence the rest of the world?               

Seeker 1: That is exaggeration. Ha ha. It’s not that low…                                               

Seeker 2: The yardsticks mentioned in the scriptures are very strict and very much different than what you are imagining for an ideal society, full of moral values! There is zero compromise or tolerance on morality on any aspects of life.                                  

Seeker 1: Hmm.                                               

Seeker 2: If the world has to be free of vice, as you think…                          

Seeker 1: Can’t be free. But we can give fence sitters a chance to rectify.                                             

Seeker 2: We should work towards doing that and not simply talk and leave it for someone to do it.

Seeker 1: I know it can’t be ideal with this human body or society.

Seeker 2: We should do our small mite. It will get picked up by like-minded…That’s how all revolutions started…started in a trickle…and expanded to mammoth proportions. You can’t forget the India’s first war of independence or Sepoy mutiny, as the British called it, can you? That altered the total situation of the country!                                

Seeker 1: I see people doing it…

Seeker 2: I know people are doing it but it is very very insignificant compared to the effort that is required to nullify the negative forces ruling around the world at this very moment…                          

Seeker 2: If you don’t agree to this, this conversation will go on forever…and I will not be able to post it (LOL).

Seeker 1: Ha ha (LOL). I totally agree to this… (at last) 🙂

P.S: Healthy debate is the one where both the protagonist and the antagonist often subject their conversations with each other to such an extreme extent, probing each other, with the only aim of arriving at a meaningful conclusion, without subjecting to frivolous arguments or mposing one’s ideology on the other.

This is how our ancient Upanishadic thoughts were arrived at!… between the seer and the seen… the seeker and the sought…

My hats off to them. May their tribe grow larger and better!

Sincere thanks to one of my many good and thoughtful North Indian friends, very much positive in Outlook, aimed at the overall well-being of our beautiful country, in this aspect.

Thanks for reaching… my best regards…

Related post:

1. Democracy?

Conversation 034: Argument Vs Debate

Seeker 2: All are doing what they think is best and doing what others are doing…in other words, all are falling into the same ditch!

Seeker 1: I heard in a discourse that the duty of a true husband is to show a right path of learning and unlearning to his spouse and vice versa.

Seeker 2: This comes in Srimad Bhagavatham, King Rishabhadeva’s teachings to his sons and the general public…

Seeker 2: “One who cannot deliver another person by instructing him in devotional service should not become a spiritual master, father, mother, demigod or husband.” – https://vedabase.io/en/library/sb/5/5/18/

Seeker 2: “Everyone should be very responsible and take charge of his dependents just as a spiritual master takes charge of his disciple or a father takes charge of his son. All these responsibilities cannot be discharged honestly unless one can save the dependent from repeated birth and death.” – Srimad Bhagavatham 5.5.18 Purport.

Seeker 1: I cannot be satisfied with evading and nibbling replies. It is very hard for me to get convinced without full satisfaction.

Seeker 2: Yes. I know that. It is very difficult to debate with you…

Seeker 2: Look at the choice of words. I said debate…not argue…both have totally different connotations and purpose…just keep on writing…only that makes one choose the right words for the right circumstances. It’s all the efforts one puts in to learn. It can be clearly shown by the way one interacts and also the upbringing…

Seeker 1: First we have to listen, read, observe all nonsenses and senses to learn and unlearn.

Seeker 1: Debate and argument may mean one thing when argument is to provoke complete outpouring of ignorance and mental imbalances. One of the traits of a teacher is to provoke a good student to come up with his full understanding of the subject.

Seeker 2: Argument does not lead to conclusions or agreements while debates leads to…argument is adamancy while debate is acceptance…

Seeker 1: Krishna Premi Anna says, “If one shouts more, then it is not that he is correct.  If another man comes and shouts more than him, then the first person will be neutralised and defeated!”

Seeker 1: Best methodology is the question and answer sessions as in all Vedic methods of teaching. There, the purpose of both listeners and teachers are only to seek enlightenment. The language used itself is divine with lots of obedience and reverence.

Seeker 1: Unfortunately it is not the case with all because of complexes of minds and personalities. One to speak and the other to simply listen and accept, that attitude never yields any fruits in knowledge seeking!